Konec upstream podpory PHP 7 (diskuse)

[Max]

Děsivější je, kolik projektů na netu ještě vyžaduje php 5.6
Zdar Max

[ehmmm]

Mne to tak desive neprijde. Proste to tak je. PHP5, Python2, IPv4 (a treba i RS232 nebo i osmibitove procesory) tu proste jeste nejaky cas budou s nami. Kdyz to funguje (na nekterych mistech), tak proc to menit.

[Franta]

Na RS232, IPv4 nebo osmibitech není nic špatného. Jsou to technologie, které mají nějaká omezení/vlastnosti, ale můžou tu s námi být klidně navěky.

Python2 a PHP5 je něco trochu jiného. Pokud v nich budou neopravené bezpečnostní chyby, tak to problém je. Záleží tedy, zda a jak kvalitně je bude někdo udržovat a podporovat.

[_]

ve spouste nasazeni je nejaka bezpecnost irelevantni

[Michal]

Funguje to zhruba takto: ops zahlasi, ze potrebuji upgradovat PHP na severu. Daji task devum, at zajisti kompatibilitu. Ti zjisti, ze na serveru je nekolik projektu v nette, symfony a laralvelu. Zaden z nich prechod na novejsi php bez upgradu frameworku neprezije. Pri blizsim zkoumani se zjisti, ze nekolik projektu pouziva pluginy, ktere nejsou ve verzi pro novejsi framework, dalsi cast pouziva, ktere jsou uz deprecated a musi se prepsat a dalsi cast nefunguje s novejsim frameworkem z blize neznamych pricin a bude vyzadovat detektivni praci. Na kolik problemu se prijde az po nasazeni v produkci pac vsechno se otestovat neda, to nokdo netusi. Zjistit tohle vsechno trva 30MD Devove spocitaji naklady na upgrade na 500 MD. Tohle jde managementu. Po 5 minutach prichazi odpoved, ze maji OPS zajistit funkcnost na php 5.6 az donekonecna a vsichni maji kvuli tem promarnenym 30MD nulove premie. Konec pribehu (ktery jsem realne zazil).

[Scrum master]

Lek na to se vola refactor, stoji to 500MD ale jednou za 5 let, ne 2x do roka. uzij si premie :)

[sid]

Genialne... tato "rada" zjavne vyzadovala vela padov na hlavicku v detstve.

[Pepa]

Jenze on ma recht. Kdyz je nejakej dinosaurus proti refactoru tak je nacase mu zamavat a jit o dum dal kde takove veci resi proaktivne.

[sid]

To ist o dum dale si tam nasiel kde? Citate vobec tie prispevky alebo to odpovedanie funguje nejako nahodne ked je tam dve a viacklucovych slov???

[generator nenahodnych slov]

Ty jako hledas logiku u lidi co pouzivaji linux nebo mas schyzu?

[Franta]

Někteří terpre přecházejí na PHP 7. Tohle je hodně blbý vtip (pro ně).

Ale přijde mi, že tohle je tak rozšířený problém, že ty staré verze PHP jen tak neumřou - bude je udržovat někdo jiný, když ne autoři PHP.

[Max]

Myslím si, že nikdo nenabízí support pro php 5.6, jen jej poskytují na webhostingu. Podobně to bude i s novějšími php.
Zdar Max

[Roman]

Nabízí, např. zde: https://www.freexian.com/lts/php/ a https://packages.sury.org/php/

[Max]

Surry vyvíjí a patchuje starý php verze? Já myslel, že jen buildí starší php pro poslední dva Debíky. Tj, security patche tam asi nebudou. A ten Freexian dělá to samé, jen podporuje i ještě starší OS.
Třeba tedy jen blbě koukám, ale kde se tedy píše, že dělají security patch vývoj nepodporovaných verzí php?
Zdar Max

[Roman]

Backportují opravy i do starých PHP, jinak by to nedávalo moc smysl, viz např: https://www.freexian.com/lts/php/updates/2022-09-29-september-update/ další zde: https://www.freexian.com/lts/php/updates/

Stejně tak repositáře u Surýho - např. php 5.6.40 má už 63 opravných vydáních, viz: https://packages.sury.org/php/pool/main/p/php5.6/php5.6_5.6.40-63%2B0~20220929.69%2Bdebian11~1.gbp639d4c_all.deb a v něm ukrytý /usr/share/doc/php5.6/changelog.Debian.gz s podrobnostmi.

[Max]

Díky.
Zdar Max

[MP]

Freexian to dela jen do doby, dokud to nekdo bude platit. Pak je s tou verzi konec.

Ze Sury nebuilduje novy php proti starymu debianu, tak na to jsem uz doplatil taky :D

[Max]

Já na to nedoplatil, protože provoz unsupported distra nechci řešit, tím pádem mě ani netrápí, že pro distro, které nepoužívám, neexistuje php repo :).
Zdar Max

[bhy]

Forpsi webhosting pořád neumí PHP 8.

[Max]

Tomu nejde věřit. Nemám tam účet, ale nevěřím, že by to takto moc ignorovali.
Zdar Max

[bhy]

https://ibb.co/crpY6dq

je to webhosting Easy za 900 Kč ročně.

[Hh]

V placene verzi maji!

[Madmucho]

Ruku na srdce, kdo jste poptával nebo svým zákazníkům proaktivně nabízel přepis/obnovu aplikace na novější podporovaný runtime. Já to u všech svých projektů nestihl, ty intranetové si nechávám na potom. Samozřejmě že někteří zákazníci na to peníze nemají takže byli upozorněni na důsledky. Většina jich ale informaci vzala a v rozpočtech budou požadovat zdroje na obnovu takových aplikací.

Je to peklo některé projekty přepisovat, ale oddalováním se problém nevyřeší.

[Max]

A je to velký problém? Jsem myslel, že v php už nejsou tak velký skoky jako dříve, kdy při každém update, i pomalu minoritním, přestala app fungovat. Jen se ptám.
Zdar Max

[Michal]

Pokud pouzivas PHP bez frameworku, tak to vetsinou problem neni. Pokud pouzivas framework, tak stravis hodne casu upravou sve apky nikoliv vuci novemu PHP ale vuci nove verzi frameworku. Pokud v tom frameworku pouzivas navic 3rd party moduly, tak to je cele jeste o level komplikovanejsi.

Samozrejme obcas narazis i s cistym PHP na casove narocne upravy nebo dokonce na neresitelne problemy (odstranili treba mcrypt, ktery umel nejake sifry a hashe, ktere openssl nahrada nenabizi takze jsi v riti).

[Madmucho]

Příjde mi že to není problem, soudím podle svého přepisoval jsem ledacos i z php 5.4 tento rok. Spíš chce začít něco dělat. V dnešní době kdy každá sajta/vhost muže jet v jiném php je mnohem lehčí dosahnout uspěchu, vše velké se da rozdělit a zjednodušit a postupně přepsat.

Největší problém pro mne byli projekty v php 5 které byli závislé na pears, každopádně bez phpstormu ani ránu, hodně pomáhá.

Od 7 vejš už je to lehčí projekt přepsat. Dnes jsem zvedal projekt v 7.4 v symfony 4 frameworku rovnou na php 8.1 a projekt jede, nekolik depecreated hlašek ze symfony orm jak upravit konfig a už je to čisté

[Milan]

Kdysi jsem přešel z PHP 5 na PHP 7, stejné názvy funkcí, jiné pořadí parametrů, musel jsem aplikace přepsat. Na PHP 8 jsem se zatím nedíval. Je někde popis jak se to liší?

[AraxoN]

Je někde popis jak se to liší?

áno, je: Migrating from PHP 7.4.x to PHP 8.0.x - Backward Incompatible Changes

[BoneFlute]

stejné názvy funkcí, jiné pořadí parametrů

Které?

V tomto je PHP celkem soudný. Ty zpětně nekompatabilní změny dělá hodně střídmě a vždycky před tím udělá velký halo. S tím, že by změnil pořadí názvů parametrů funkce jsem se nesetkal. Takže pokud taková výjimka je, tak mě to přirozeně zajímá, abych si na to dal pozor

[Vantomas]

Třeba implode() nebo explode() parametry schrouplo, když byly prohozené. Sice to tak v dokumentaci nebylo, ale když se to někdo naučil obráceně, tak to v těch projektech bylo až do nových verzí, protože to nijak nikoho netrápilo.

[BoneFlute]

Rozumím. Tak to jsem v klidu.

Je tam něco dalšího? Něco, co by se dalo oprávněně PHP vytknout? Musí být

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[Alex]

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