Dotaz: OpenBSD, nováčik a porty

[Bunny]

Dobrý deň,

nainštaloval som si OpenBSD. Očakával som, že balíky budú stabilnejšie a teda aj staršie, no tomuto nerozumiem.

Cez cvsup som si updatoval zoznam portov, vošiel do /usr/ports/x11/awesome a na moje počudovanie tam je verzia 2.3.6..

Na stránke http://openports.se/x11/awesome však uvádzajú, že port awesome by mal mať verziu 3.4.6

Povedzme si na rovinu ten rozdiel je tam dosť veľký. V FreeBSD tomu bolo tak, že v portoch bolo awesome a awesome3.. Jediné awesome ktoré som teraz našiel je však to vyššie spomínané.

Viete mi to vysvetliť?

Ďakujem za odpoveď, prajem pekný zvyšok dňa

Odpovědi

[lukove]

To vyzerá na zamyslenie.. nič ti nebráni si skompilovať svoj vlastný balíček..

[Bunny]

V podstate mi nebráni vôbec nič. Iba som chcel vedieť, či sa nestala chyba niekde u mňa ( či som nepoužil zlý zdroj portov, a pod. )

[lukove]

1. novembra 2010 vyjde OpenBSD 4.8, v repozitaroch je

http://ftp5.eu.openbsd.org/ftp/pub/OpenBSD/snapshots/packages/i386/

awesome-3.4.6.tgz 08-Sep-2010 18:43 2.6M

takže počkať 2 mesiace alebo nahodit beta verziu openbsdcka

[Bunny]

To každého pol roka vychádza nová verzia OpenBSD?

Podľa toho čo som videl, upgrade nie je jednoduchý.. Prečo je v 4.7 a 4.8 až taký veľký rozdiel čo sa týka balíkov? xmonad je tiež 0.7 a normálne už je vo verzii 0.9.1..

Síce nepotrebujem mať najnovší soft, ja si to OpenBSD inštalujem na workspace - tj. dva monitory, xmonad / awesome wm a textové editory.. Ale stále mi to nejde do hlavy.

[lukove]

ak som to spravne pochopil hlavnou zmenou v 4.8 je prechod na GCC4 ale nesom si isty len tak som pozeral balicky v ftp..

[x]

Kdyz chces OpenBSD, tak pouzij www.scrotwm.org jako wm primo od jednoho z vyvojaru. Velmi navykove. Druhak pokud ti jde o desktop, tak zapomen na release/stable a jdi primo do snapshotu. Jednak budes mit aktualni aplikace a druhak jsou tam uplne trapne jednoduche upgrade. Nova verze vychazi kazdy den, ale klidne muzes delat upgrade jen jednou za mesic. A nemusis se bat, plno lidi pouziva current i na serverech v produkci. Tohle neni Linux, tady delaji vyvojari svoji praci.

[Bunny]

Dík. Ani ma nenapadlo pozrieť sa, ako je to s verziami. Ku tomu updatu som ale nič nenašiel. Ako si to myslel, že je to ľahké? A aké používať porty? Doteraz som sa riadil stránkou openbsd101.com podľa ktorej som si vytvoril cvsup konfigurák a cez neho sťahoval sourcy a porty.

[lukove]

podla toho co som sa docital tak nie je mozno pouzit porty s 4.8 na 4.7 a ani napr. 1 mesaic novsie porty. vzdycky je treba mat zosynchonizovane vsetko teda world+kernel+ports.

[x]

Spravne. Viz. :

Keeping Things in Sync

It is important to understand that OpenBSD is an Operating System, intended to be taken as a whole, not a kernel with a bunch of utilities stuck on. You must make sure your kernel, "userland" (the supporting utilities and files) and ports tree are all in sync, or unpleasant things will happen. Said another way (because people just keep making the error), you can not run brand new ports on a month old system, or rebuild a kernel from -current source and expect it to work with a -release userland. Yes, this does mean you need to upgrade your system if you want to run a new program which was added to the ports tree today. Sorry, but again, OpenBSD has limited resources available. One should also understand that the upgrade process is supported in only one direction: from older to newer, and from -stable to -current. You can not run 4.7-current (or a snapshot), then decide you are living too dangerously, and step back to 4.7-stable. You are on your own if you choose any path other than the supported option of reloading your system from scratch, do not expect assistance from the OpenBSD development team.

Yes, this does mean you should think long and hard before committing yourself to using -current.

Ale je tady uplne jina vec. Novacci prichazejici z Linuxu nebo jinych OS uz jsou bohuzel navykli, ze tamni vyvojari jsou nemehla a ani neumi delat poradne svoji praci a tak se divaji vsude po Google a ruznych tutorialech, kolikrat zastaralych a tento zvyk si prinasi i na OpenBSD. Zapomente na nej Tady vyvojari vedi jak delat svoji praci a proto tady je i poradna a aktualni dokumentace. FAQ a man stranky je vse co clovek potrebuje, kdyz si to clovek procte, tak pochopi.

[x]

Cti jen FAQ a man, plus maximalne archiv mail konferenci. Ale ve FAQ je vse potrebne. OpenBSD101 je psane jen takovy hodne rychly uvod a myslim, ze neni ani aktualni, ale nekontroloval jsem presne.

Pokud pouzivas snapshoty, tak musis i balicky instalovat ze snapshot adresare mirroru (promenna PKG_PATH), zapomen na porty to pouzij jen pokud neni balicek (malokdy)

The end result of the porting effort are ready-to-install binary packages. The aim of the package system is to keep track of which software gets installed, so that it may at any time be updated or removed very easily. This way, no unnecessary files are left behind, and users can keep their systems clean. The package system also helps ensure nothing is deleted by accident, causing software to stop functioning properly. Another advantage is that users rarely need to compile software from source, as packages have already been compiled and are available and ready to be used on an OpenBSD system. In minutes, a large number of packages can be fetched and installed, with everything in the right place.

15.4.7 - How do I tweak these ports to have maximum performance?

OpenBSD is about stability and security. Just like the GENERIC kernel is the default and the only supported kernel, the ports team makes sure the ports work and are stable. If you want to switch on all kinds of compiler options, you are on your own. Please do not ask questions on the mailing lists such as why it does not work, when you tried to switch on a few hidden knobs to make it work faster. In general, all this tweaking is not necessary for more than 99% of users, and it is very likely to be a complete waste of time, for you, the user, as well as for the developers who read about your "problems" when in reality there are none.

Lehke upgrade jsem myslel tim, ze jak nainstalujes snapshot, tak jak budes chtit treba za mesic udelat upgrade na novejsi snapshot, tak jen nabootujes z bsd.rd jadra, ale misto volby instalace vyberes upgrade, az to projede, tak reboot a pak sysmerge(8) s volbama -s a -x (mrkni do man co tam dat) a pak uz jen pkg_add -vur -D update pro aktualizaci baliku. Cele tohle zabere tak 15min (zalezi na tvem HW a rychlosti netu), absolutne bez kompilace.

A jak pouzivat portu? Nepouzivej je. Cilem portu jsou balicky, proto pouzivej balicky. Porty potrebujes jen vyjimecne pokud chces treba Windows kodeky nebo fonty, proste veci s problemovou licenci, ktere nemohou byt udelany jako balicek. Jinak detaily tady http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq15.html

[Bunny]

Snapshot nainštalovaný, miesto portov používam binárky a beží to úplne úžasne. Aj ScrotWM je super. Dík za odpoveď. Teraz sa budem musieť hrať s xorgom, aby som rozbehal dva monitory.

[x]

Ja se diky scrotwm naopak druheho monitoru zbavil

[x]

A ano, OpenBSD je jediny OS, ktery sva vydani vydava vzdy presne ve slibenem case a to jiz 13 let v rade. Maji neco, co chybi ostatnim a to nejen komercnim firmam, ale i vetsine open source projektu :

http://www.openbsd.org/papers/asiabsdcon2009-release_engineering/

[lukove]

prosim o radu ako je to s upgrade s 4.7 na 4.8 current ?


prosim je to dobry postup?
1.. rebuild jadra
2.. reboot
3.. rebuild world
4.. reboot
5.. je potrebne spravit vsetko ako je v
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/current.html
alebo to buildworld spravy za mna?

dakujem.

[x]

Ne.

1) Binarni upgrade na aktualni snapshot, cili stahnout bsd.rd z adresare snapshots na mirroru a umistit jej do /, nabootovat z nej (v boot promptu boot hd0a:/bsd.rd), misto instalace vybrat upgrade, az to bude, tak sysmerge(8) a prepinace -s a -x

2) Pote upgrade src ports xenocara na current pomoci CVS

3) http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html , http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=release&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=OpenBSD+Current&arch=i386&format=html

Zadny world neni. Doporucuju procist opravdu to FAQ5 a tu man stranku. Ale spise bych vubec nepouzival ciste current. Snapshoty jsou opravdu mnohem snadnejsi, protoze clovek nic nemusi kompilovat a dela jen binarni upragde/update a zaroven je na current (pokud to dela kazdy den).

[pepazdepa]

to s tou xenocarou je uplny nesmysl, proc?

"Official binary snapshots are available as part of OpenBSD-current for most architectures." - viz http://xenocara.org/

[x]

Tak pokud chce aktualni zdrojaky, tak at ma vsechny. O tolik vice mista nebo casu to stejne nezabere.

[lukve]

eh no trosku mi to rozsirilo moje vedomosti.. upgrade s instalacneho cd poznam.. a too je asik presne to co hladam... ako to naznacil (x) binarny upgrade na aktualny snapshot mi uplne postacuje a nemusim saskovat so zdrojakmy. mne islo len o to ze som si myslel ze na binarny upgrad musim mat vypalene iso a s neho spustit upgrade..  preto som chcel ist cestou prekompilovania..

[pepazdepa]

nainstaluj si neco jinyho a jdi do hajzlu kdyz jsi takovy dement, ze neumis cist ani OpenBSD dokumentaci (man pages nebo FAQ).

(upgrade -> snapshoty a sysmerge)

[lukove]

dik :(

[MX]

Hm, jaky Theo, takovi jeho nasledovnici. Nic jineho nez nadavky bych od cloveka co pouziva OpenBSD snad ani necekal.

PS: jsem rad, ze uz v tom projektu nejsem namoceny. -- marex@

[x]

Jinak napred doporucuji precist FAQ a pochopit rozdil mezi release, stable, snapshots a current. Ohledne portu te muze zajimat primo tohle http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb a openports.se nelze, pro current/snapshoty je aktualni verze 3.4.6 http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/ports/x11/awesome/